Old movements

[Anuwatch]

Hi all, new member here. I have a question about building watches using old movements (just like VDB brand of watches).

I understand mechanical movements need to be serviced every year. If it is a Rolex or Omega, my AD will be able to find parts and repair the watch movement. In the case of old movements, especially the rare ones like those used in vintage panerai, won’t they become useless once you run out of parts? So why do people pay so much for these old movements that is subject to wear and tear. Just want to hear everyone’s view.

[spade_lt]

Well, for one, they don't need to be serviced every year - more like once in 5 years (maybe more)...
For two, 'serviced' means basically disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, oiled. If done regularly, there is no reason why the movement couldn't run without problems for a hundred years and more. Problems arise when the watch/movement get's mishandled.
For three, when you run out of NOS parts, what you do, is cannibalize other movements to get the parts you need. Vintage Panerais used Cortebert 618 movement, which basically is the same as Cortebert 616 - and these aren't particularly rare.

But otherwise you are correct - if what you are looking for is the least amount of problems, you should just get ETA 2824 / 2892 / 6497 or other ubiquitous movement... because old movements always come with risks.

[avo13]

Not an expert here but assuming in the case of a popular old movement, there will be demand for parts and some smart individual will find a way to manufacture replacement parts. If China can replicate entire movements piece by piece for much more complex movements, it doesn't seem unrealistic. Additionally, talented watchmakers can make some parts by hand if replacements are not available. Not every part in a movement is subject to the same amount of wear and tear so the number of problematic parts for a certain movement may be fairly limited.

I have several pieces that are 60 years old and have only gone through 2-3 services. I find it reasonable to assume they will outlive me if I treat them nicely and rotate them in my collection. I say enjoy the old rare movements!

[Anuwatch]

I am interested in 2 movements. The SF240 Angelus and the Rolex 618. I understand Angelus is no longer around as a company, so I always wonder why people will pay hundreds to buy the clock to make a watch. Why not use a Chinese clone of a Unitas. As for Rolex 618, I know it’s cortebert base, but are the corteberts so easy to find? I understand the factory closed down early and sold the machines to the Russians? It’s crazy to pay thousands just for the Rolex word on the bridges?

Or do you finally sell to collectors on eBay for a good profit?

[spade_lt]

This discussion is weird

Yes, you can use a chinese clone movement in a build - it's your build, you can do whatever you want
People, who are using 240s and 618s, are trying to make it as close to original as possible. Is that more risky than just using an A6497? Yes. But it's more fun.

Regarding "buying an old clock to make a watch", I already answered that one... 'Old' doesn't automatically mean 'bad', as you for some reason are suggesting. If good care is taken of the movement, it wil run and run - in a clean and oiled movement wear is negligible. If something gets damaged - you either source NOS parts, or a donor movement (or, as mentioned by avo13, new parts can be made, although that costs a lot). Most fragile part - balance staff, - seems to be available for both 618 and 240.
Rolex 618 isn't only "Cortebert base" it is a Cortebert. The only difference from 616 is the design of the bridges. And yes, these are available - maybe not as omnipresent as A6497, but not really rare. As are key wound 240's, which could be used as a parts source for stem wind 240's...
It's not as bad as you think.

p.s. I'm not sure what you mean by saying "finally sell to collectors on eBay for a good profit", but if what you mean is selling them as a genuine vintage watches, then fraud is not something this forum is about.

[Phaedros]

I see it this way - a Mercedes W198 will always be restored, even if smashed to pieces, even if only the chassis number survived and there are proper papers, someone will source, make etc. the parts to rebuild it again. Why? Because the car is historically significant and worth more than the sum of it´s parts.

Could you build one without a chassis number? Yes - given the right amount of cash there are replicated parts for every detail... Would this be wrong? I dont think so - it wouldn`t be a W198 though... more of a homage

Counterfeiting a history, making up papers and selling it to be the real deal would be wrong and a dick move extraordinaire!