Hi M.
Do you think that Tornek dials were printed in USA?
As far as I understood, Blancpain was doing most of the parts.
Tornek was originally just a reseller and they built a workshop just to comply with Buy American Act.
I've read a funny fact on this: according to BAA, contractors had to buy US jewels, but Tornek found that Swiss ones were definitely better. So Tronek was buying US jewels, but didn't use these!
@Fizzzz
Hi S.
It is not a thought, it is a fact.
Tornek dials were made in the US, cases were produced with imported Swedish steel and finished with a grained matte surface, making the watch reflection proof.
The dials lume compound was promethium-147 - the PM 147 ref. printed below the chapter.
S., if Mr. Tornek was a mere reseller why would he be buying jewels, or a factory / special production line in Brooklyn twice the size of Centre Georges Pompidou?
Now read this:
“(…) The initial order was for 780 watches (at $187.50 each) and the last of them were delivered in June 1965.
A few months later another order for slightly fewer than 300 was received but that was it for the navy.
Two years later, Mr. Tornek approached the navy asking if they needed any more watches, but as the Vietnam conflict was at its height, the powers that be had other things on their minds and told him that they didn’t think that they would need any more. So the special production line was dismantled, and the external suppliers (dial and steel companies) were told that their services were no longer needed.”
Best,
M.
Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
I've actually been eyeballing this exact case for a FF's build. I'll likely pull the trigger soon on one. I have a proper bezel removal tool so I will remove the original insert first (I'll make a new one out of plexiglass) and then try to pop the bezel off. I'd like to see if there is a way to reduce the height of the bezel in order to be more in line with the FF's case. Also, I am guessing this is a 120 click bezel? I believe the original FF's were a friction based turning bezel but I could be wrong. Do any of you gents know for sure?
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
@Ace0nBase RDUNAE is a 120 click bezel. Solid feel if I may add.
My PreVs, PreAs and more: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6554
PreV and PreA cases: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6652
PreV dials: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6651
PreV and PreA cases: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6652
PreV dials: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6651
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
@madasboot
Hi M,
I wrote that Tornek was originally a reseller for Rayville S.A. which was producing Blancpain FF.
it's mentionned in the same article you quoted.
Another source: https://www.blackbird-watchmanual.com/m ... y-fathoms/
"Following the role of the French Navy in its conception and their issuing of the watch to their divers, it was inevitable that other armed forces would take note. Thanks to their relationship with their American agent, Allen Tornek in New York, a variation of the Fifty Fathoms designated TR-900 was entered into the assessment of the US Navy..."
"Due to the Buy American Act ensuring that the US government had a strong preference to buy domestically made products, a workshop was set up in Tornek’s home to assemble watches, and they were obligated by the military to buy rubies for the US that were inferior, so were simply discarded for the Swiss jewels to be used; fortunately the US Navy were not aware of these details."
- 1959: MIL-W-22176
- 1959: Tornek submitted Blancpain FF MILSPEC I to US Navy BUSHIP
- 1961: MIL-W-22176A
My understanding is that TR900 ancestor developped for US was this one:
"A very early example of the watches made for the US Navy, before the dial was branded as Tornek-Rayville"
- then they had to create Tornek-Rayville company and the assembly line in NY to avoid taxes due to Buy American Act.
As usual with Swiss Watch industry, it's never easy to know clearly where the parts come from
Hi M,
I wrote that Tornek was originally a reseller for Rayville S.A. which was producing Blancpain FF.
it's mentionned in the same article you quoted.
Another source: https://www.blackbird-watchmanual.com/m ... y-fathoms/
"Following the role of the French Navy in its conception and their issuing of the watch to their divers, it was inevitable that other armed forces would take note. Thanks to their relationship with their American agent, Allen Tornek in New York, a variation of the Fifty Fathoms designated TR-900 was entered into the assessment of the US Navy..."
"Due to the Buy American Act ensuring that the US government had a strong preference to buy domestically made products, a workshop was set up in Tornek’s home to assemble watches, and they were obligated by the military to buy rubies for the US that were inferior, so were simply discarded for the Swiss jewels to be used; fortunately the US Navy were not aware of these details."
- 1959: MIL-W-22176
- 1959: Tornek submitted Blancpain FF MILSPEC I to US Navy BUSHIP
- 1961: MIL-W-22176A
My understanding is that TR900 ancestor developped for US was this one:
"A very early example of the watches made for the US Navy, before the dial was branded as Tornek-Rayville"
- then they had to create Tornek-Rayville company and the assembly line in NY to avoid taxes due to Buy American Act.
As usual with Swiss Watch industry, it's never easy to know clearly where the parts come from
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
[/quote]
Hi M.
Do you think that Tornek dials were printed in USA?
As far as I understood, Blancpain was doing most of the parts.
Tornek was originally just a reseller and they built a workshop just to comply with Buy American Act.
I've read a funny fact on this: according to BAA, contractors had to buy US jewels, but Tornek found that Swiss ones were definitely better. So Tronek was buying US jewels, but didn't use these!
Another point: I've seen Blancpain military watches auctionned, some had Tornek engravings inside caseback...
Anyway, MIL-W-22176A design and measurements are far from actual dials.
I was just replying to your first paragraph.
“ Hi M.
Do you think that Tornek dials were printed in USA?
As far as I understood, Blancpain was doing most of the parts.
Tornek was originally just a reseller and they built a workshop just to comply with Buy American Act.”
Dials and cases were produced in the US; it is documented not an idea
Best
M.
Hi M.
Do you think that Tornek dials were printed in USA?
As far as I understood, Blancpain was doing most of the parts.
Tornek was originally just a reseller and they built a workshop just to comply with Buy American Act.
I've read a funny fact on this: according to BAA, contractors had to buy US jewels, but Tornek found that Swiss ones were definitely better. So Tronek was buying US jewels, but didn't use these!
Another point: I've seen Blancpain military watches auctionned, some had Tornek engravings inside caseback...
Anyway, MIL-W-22176A design and measurements are far from actual dials.
@Fizzzzmadasboot wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 6:22 am Lume was applied over a flat surface (contrarily to the swiss counterparts which were curved dials in their majority) so there is no need to carve the indices because they should have a white printed background.
The carved indices were usually to get more radium in and had the purpose of a lume box with a first layer of zync oxide, reflective to enhance glow.
Originally these dials had a straightforward build, flat, white printed and matte.
The recess for the litmus can make sense so in case of swelling by moisture, not compromising the functionality of the watch (hour hand overhead).
Summing, I find its not necessary to carve the indices and it does not present any advantage, especially for luming.
I was just replying to your first paragraph.
“ Hi M.
Do you think that Tornek dials were printed in USA?
As far as I understood, Blancpain was doing most of the parts.
Tornek was originally just a reseller and they built a workshop just to comply with Buy American Act.”
Dials and cases were produced in the US; it is documented not an idea
Best
M.
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
It depends on which version of FF you want to build...Ace0nBase wrote: ↑January 29th, 2023, 9:01 pm I've actually been eyeballing this exact case for a FF's build. I'll likely pull the trigger soon on one. I have a proper bezel removal tool so I will remove the original insert first (I'll make a new one out of plexiglass) and then try to pop the bezel off. I'd like to see if there is a way to reduce the height of the bezel in order to be more in line with the FF's case. Also, I am guessing this is a 120 click bezel? I believe the original FF's were a friction based turning bezel but I could be wrong. Do any of you gents know for sure?
To comply with MIL SPEC, Tornek-Rayville had a special bezel to prevent accidental rotation.
check manual below: It takes 3 fingers and a push down to rotate the bezel
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
@Fizzzz
That is a simple friction bezel…
It will not move with just one finger…
contrarily to the recent reedition:
That is a simple friction bezel…
It will not move with just one finger…
contrarily to the recent reedition:
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Re: Blancpain US Navy… now within reach
@madasboot
Simple friction bezel? Then why need to push down?
Funny note on contemporary Rayville manual:
they are based on Lancaster Ave, PA,
so probably close to former Hamilotn factory...
Simple friction bezel? Then why need to push down?
Funny note on contemporary Rayville manual:
they are based on Lancaster Ave, PA,
so probably close to former Hamilotn factory...
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