Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Sandwich »

TimemiT wrote:
November 23rd, 2019, 5:19 pm
I want to simply point out, and I am respectful of debate and all positions on this. If we are to deem a manufactured and engraved part as "illegal" .. we may as well all take apart 90% of our homage watches, dials, hands, crown guards, buckles, casebacks with any references that is T.M. .. and toss them in the trash. Don't mean to get biblical here ... but he who is without sin, cast the first RP dial! :D
I hear you and agree mostly. My analogy is that if you are slightly over the speed limit driving the cops will let it go. If you are double the speed limit, they probably won’t. A small run of dials or cases that can easily be identified as nongen even by an amateur: slightly over the speed limit. I can’t see Rolex going after a hobbyist doing a run of 20 cases in 316L, which is not the same as original Staybrite steel. Offering to “convert” 616s to gen-like 618s that can fool more people: maybe too fast? That’s the question, for the forum, which has risk if it allows these products to be promoted here. Maybe I’m just paranoid....

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by thelonedoc »

Sandwich wrote:
November 23rd, 2019, 4:45 pm
To clarify: I have no grudge with Chileantiques. But I think there is a difference between someone doing small runs of items for fun and someone selling illegally trademarked items on a large scale. I worry about the risk it poses for the forum. Like I said, many may disagree with me and that’s fine. I just wanted to put this viewpoint out there.

PS I don’t think I’ve flamed anyone. I am posing questions and giving opinions about the hobby but making no personal judgments or attacks.
Yeah sorry Sandwhich, you didn't exactly flame and apologize for sort of singleing you out as an example. It's just that you sort of set the stage for the dogpile that I could see coming with some strongly worded posts.

Your points are all valid, especially about being cautious not to bring legitimate heat onto our well intentioned community.

I definitly see your point of view.

That being said, I dont think there are a lot of components being produced for our community on large scales. Nobody in this forum has a full fledged factory that I am aware of pumping out 1000's of anything. It is a niche hobby market and parts are made in relatively small batches. Even Jorge spitballing this project is only talking about doing a limited run for a handful of people if there is even enough interest. He's just one guy making these parts by hand for a small group of enthusiasts.

And like I mentioned about machining cases and someone else later elaborated on, it's a slippery slope. If we want to suddenly object to bridge plates, dont we also need to address all of the dials, and cases, crowns, and so forth? Why is the line drawn at movement engravings?

This is why I voiced my objection to the turn this thread was taking. Why all of a sudden the big uproar? I haven't heard of anyone becoming outraged with DSN for his 618s or Dellone or any of the other members who offer their engraving skills.

I for one am happy to have access to bridge plates that remove the unused alarm components from my 240s for my grail builds. If I'm investing this much to create an authentic looking hommage, I am happy to push it a little further and spend a little more, even if a watchmaker has to help me make it work properly, to get it looking just right. Do I need the baseplate refinished and engraved to falsely represent the manufacture date? No. But maybe I'm just not quite that OCD yet. But to each their own.

The point is, these services exist because there is a market. People want to build their dream watches and are willing pay for the skilled artisans to work their magic. I would like there to be every conceivable option at our disposal to create whatever masterpiece we can imagine.

And to be quite frank, until rolex and panerai and whatever other historical company that these homages are made to celebrate begin releasing their own "historical" collections; with aged cases, rusted hands, stained dials, and cracked lume, I don't think they will be terribly concerned what we do. At the end of the day, we aren't cutting anyone's grass... The gen vintage watches are still priceless. Real counterfeiters will still try to sneak their watches into auctions. And the big wig companies will continue to put out soul-less and sad attempts to reinvent their achievements of the past. They would be doing these things, with or without our community's existence, and they will continue to make money with or without us. I think this is why we are allowed to exist in the first place. Nobody really cares, and if anything we might actually contribute to generating buzz and creating interest in the brands.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Sandwich »

[mention]thelonedoc[/mention] No problem; no offense taken. You may be right and perhaps I am overreacting. I see your points too and I think we don’t necessarily disagree that much. I agree that hobbyist replicas on a small scale shouldn’t be a problem, even if technically illegal (although making a replica for just yourself is actually legal to my understanding). I was just wondering aloud if a line was being crossed, which could cause a problem.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques »

Hi guys, thanks for your opinion. Well i just put this info just to see if theres interest. I was open regarding talk about price and all other things. This is a already developed project, not mas produced, and i offer it as a forum product if theres people interested for sure, but seems despite the price, seems no interest because other causes, and its ok.
Again, the idea wasnt sell this as a scam or replica or whatever, and regarding all the products i sell, all my customers know what are buying. For sure i cant control what other people makes with the products (i know some trying to sells watches with my movements and other aftermarket parts as gen). But that can be done with all parts produced by other members of the forum or other forums.
Some of you well know the history of a240 bridges, aome other nop. My father, a 75 years old now, several time ago put on sell a lot of a240 gen parts he have, including movements, spare, etc... he see a lot of interest and that year he know a chilean person that works on a watch factory in swiss. He operated a cnc machine and told my father he produced that in past. That person and my father makes a batch or bad quality bridges with bad quality finish and bad quality material (this person have alcohol problems and some products was very bad, not all same). So he start to have lot of refund asking and he recieve back a lot of bridges, some other people probably stored.
Time later i start to help my father in this and we invest in machinery and i start to work on that. Quality increased, until now. We offer the product on forum, ask members put a price and told anyone that have old stock one will be replaced with new one, and we replace a lot of them. In that ocasion we also see a lot of possitive and bad comments about it.
The thing is that the idea is not take this proposal as a spark to ignite a confrontation in opinions. If i put in a community (forum) thread is to consider the opinion of the persons of the community.

My idea is always comment with sincerity, respect and without bad intentions, hope the same from others.
If the problem was the engravings, that can be solved. But i see that not just a engraving issue and its ok.
Thanks for all your opinion and regards.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Sandwich »

I don’t think you’re trying to do anything wrong. I just worry there could be trouble. I would suggest you put a deep engraving hidden on the back of your 616/618 bridges that says “replica.” Then no one can misuse them. People can still use them for attractive conversions without fear or being accused of counterfeiting. More importantly you cannot be accused of helping counterfeiters. Just my opinion....

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Yoda »

It was never fully moderator supported, the thread and mini chat has been edited to meet forum rules.

Please continue to treat each other with respect, everyone should treat others like they would like to be treated themselves.
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques »

tafari wrote:
November 20th, 2019, 9:11 am
earloflondon wrote:
Chileantiques wrote: Wait, the conversion kit bridges can cost 350usd, not 600. I mean if you install the kit on a molly, you convert it on a 600usd movement.
I think, theres a lot of projects with molly already installed that can upgrade to a different level the movement.
Ok the cheapest decent molnija costs around 50 dollars let's say and the total cost with bridges can be at least 400 dollars. And it can be sold for 600$ to whom willing to pay that amount. That's fair as long as there's that someone. Don't get me wrong. Your effort is valueless, but is it a good business idea I'm trying to say. It's your call. Again the thing you've done is great to be honest

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I agree with this. why not try to do this bridges at a low cost like $350 for the cortébert 616? I guess it might be work the same way like for the molnija. Im not sure it does, but if, Im sure it would have a lot of customers
Well the bridge its a little ticker, so more time and tools are involved, but sure can be done. I dont know if 350 will be the price but can be near if theres enought interest. Brushed finish and engraving i can be a good way to lower price.

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