Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

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Chileantiques
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Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques » November 19th, 2019, 2:20 pm

Hi to everyone,
theres a lot of time that i dont produce a new masive product for pam lovers. Since the production of a240 and cortebert 618 conversion kits, both expensive movements, i make couple prototypes some years ago for molnija, but never show on forum (i think irate have another prototype of the two made).

I show the final results, and also will like to know if people on forum will be interested on this kind of product. The advantage of this is that molnija movements at this moment are cheaper than a240 and 618, and regarding molnija are almost same shape as the 618/620 model (same as 618 but thinner, like a elinvar one).

So questions will be:

1.- Are you interested:
2.- What price you think fair to pay for this kit?

As with the angelus 240 bridges first batches, i make a open discuss about price of those, and the final result was a price that at this moment are almost hold. So will be interesting on find a right price between people interested (quantity of units need to be made) and price for it. I think as more people will be interested price can be less. This will give a molnija (i think) a bump up price for those that use this conversion kit, so i will make a initial first batch (if theres enought people interested) then wait some time until make new batch, also can be disccuss here, so people interested on invest on those can have time.
When i develop 616 to 618 conversion kits and a240 kits, prices both was bump, so i think same will happend with molnija movements, not too much like other because more available. Anyway, just the new bridge finish (high quality), will improve significant the movement price by itself.

Will be glad if anyone can contribute in any way.

parts included on kit will be :
1.- Ratchet bridge
2.- Train and escape wheel bridge (one piece as the escape wheel bridge screw dont have a hole on baseplate, this can be done easy, but if not will hold on place anyway like pic show)
3.- Balance Bridge with correct engraving, this sample have a stock balance bridge with rebrush and erase of the molnija engravings, final ones will be aftermarket ones.

All parts will be brushed and nickel plated finish with custom engravings.

Regarding installation:
1.- Replacing jewels can be performed by me or any other people with correct tools, i can made by myself if send the stock bridges.
2.- To use new balance bridge, stock balance will need to be unmounted and then remounted.

many people on this forum are able to do that, myself also, so also if theres enought people on some country interested, some other forum member can be on charge for that locallly

Sorry for my english and thanks for your comments

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Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Belkin12 » November 19th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Great intention!
I’m not ready to discuss a price, but there are two significant issues that can ruin your start up.
1. Molly’s, especially early thin batches, are not so reliable as 616/618 or 240. Moreover, sometimes bridges from two absolutely similar movements produced even in one and the same year may be not interchangeable. How your kit will deal with that I wonder?
2. The absence of brass chatons in a train bridge makes a movement to look a kind of meager and implausible. I may be wrong of course, it’s just an opinion.

But anyway, I’ll be happy if you succeed with it!

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques » November 19th, 2019, 2:44 pm

Belkin12 wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 2:35 pm
Great intention!
I’m not ready to discuss a price, but there are two significant issues that can ruin your start up.
1. Molly’s, especially early thin batches, are not so reliable as 616/618 or 240. Moreover, sometimes bridges from two absolutely similar movements produced even in one and the same year may be not interchangeable. How your kit will deal with that I wonder?
2. The absence of brass chatons in a train bridge makes a movement to look a kind of meager and implausible. I may be wrong of course, it’s just an opinion.

But anyway, I’ll be happy if you succeed with it!
yes, theres about 3 types (3601, 3602 and 3603 i think) some have hole for pins and other have pins itself with threading on baseplate so screw hole work as a pin and retaining bridge... actually this works for 3602 and probably 3601).
So according molnija types (no more than 4) at least 3602 and 3601 have same pin hole on baseplate...
Regarding other ones recess for that can also be performed on this conversion bridge.
so that will not be a problem, there can be produced according molnija model you will use. For me quality are better on later models 3601 and 3602 (more like cort)

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Mike777 » November 19th, 2019, 2:46 pm

The problem I have with the 3602 is no shock protection.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Belkin12 » November 19th, 2019, 2:51 pm

Mike777 wrote:The problem I have with the 3602 is no shock protection.
3603 is your choice. The only difference with 3602 is shock protection. And taking into account that 3603 were produced at the end of Sovetics era, the quality of finish of bridges and wheels is awful.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Grimlocktime » November 19th, 2019, 2:52 pm

Bravo! Beautiful work as always. I share the view above about the reliability of the molly. Due to the significant cost of your beautiful bridges, I think I speak for more than a few when I say we’d rather invest the money in a Cortebert 616 conversion over a Molnija conversion.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques » November 19th, 2019, 3:08 pm

Grimlocktime wrote:
November 19th, 2019, 2:52 pm
Bravo! Beautiful work as always. I share the view above about the reliability of the molly. Due to the significant cost of your beautiful bridges, I think I speak for more than a few when I say we’d rather invest the money in a Cortebert 616 conversion over a Molnija conversion.
sure that depends on price also. This moder are thinner than 616 so price can be less... also price by itself on molnija was low, so bridges cant be same price as the 616 ones...
i think depending on interest and quantity, prices can low up to 350USD, this means a molnija pluss 350USD can be a movement that can be sold easy 600+usd. Its the same that ETA movements, base ones are "cheap" but with aftermarket bridges prices increase. Remember price depends on quality of the "ingredients", and except some later molnija movements, earlier ones have crown wheel, and other wheels decent quality.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by djolemag » November 19th, 2019, 3:14 pm

Belkin12 wrote:
Mike777 wrote:The problem I have with the 3602 is no shock protection.
3603 is your choice. The only difference with 3602 is shock protection. And taking into account that 3603 were produced at the end of Sovetics era, the quality of finish of bridges and wheels is awful.
Also balance staff is slightly different, it has conical pivots due to shock protection.
Also, legit references menrions only molnia 3602A , 3502, 3603 and 3608. 3602A has flat hairsping (3602 breguet) and is much thinner, bridges have CdG and parts are not easy interchangable with 3602 and 3603.
My two cents: if this project makes also brass chatons for jewels and CdG finish, it can be interested.
Of course, price would be crucial, because Corteberts 61x or 62x can be found, still for decent price.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk


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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Mellons » November 19th, 2019, 5:58 pm

Interesting project- would be useful to get more information.
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by EBWing » November 19th, 2019, 6:35 pm

Really sweet idea I would like a working movement in the future to play with. I actually own one of your prototype sets from a long time ago that Irate03 had.... unfortunately the movement died and Unreformed66 couldn’t get those bridges working on another movement. I still have the bridges if anyone felt up to the challenge to get them working I would have to get another molly movement I don’t have one at the moment.

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