Angelus 240 and cortebert 616 parts making process

[djolemag]

Yup, I have Boley one, sinular to Lorch you mentioned...


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[tafari]

work of a master, very interesting

[wwwEvgeny]

It is amazing, Jorge. if i get some of your sets, i need to mach finishing of other plates to the same color. were could i get nickel plating kit )))?

[Chileantiques]

Thanks for the comments [mention]Akvanautas[/mention] [mention]applelone[/mention] [mention]tafari[/mention]

It is amazing, Jorge. if i get some of your sets, i need to mach finishing of other plates to the same color. were could i get nickel plating kit )))?

Thanks! i prepare my own nickel plating solutions with Nickel sulfate, nickel chloride and some aditives. I think in the past they dont use too much aditives. My experience with newer prepared solutions are that comes with too much leveling and shining aditives, so the Brushing or the CDG dissapear if you left couple secconds left on the solution. I have seen a lot of replated things that looks like chrome finish, personally i dont like that so i found my own mixture of ingredients for the nickel. You can use non bright nickel solution and test how much time need to drop in to get good results.
Voltage depends on piece size.
Regards

[wwwEvgeny]

Thanks for the comments @Akvanautas @applelone @tafari

It is amazing, Jorge. if i get some of your sets, i need to mach finishing of other plates to the same color. were could i get nickel plating kit )))?

Thanks! i prepare my own nickel plating solutions with Nickel sulfate, nickel chloride and some aditives. I think in the past they dont use too much aditives. My experience with newer prepared solutions are that comes with too much leveling and shining aditives, so the Brushing or the CDG dissapear if you left couple secconds left on the solution. I have seen a lot of replated things that looks like chrome finish, personally i dont like that so i found my own mixture of ingredients for the nickel. You can use non bright nickel solution and test how much time need to drop in to get good results.
Voltage depends on piece size.
Regards

Some of my sf240 are silver plated )) it gives greater patina, but from historical standpoint, what is better? should be Nickel I suppose ))) I have silver, palladium, rhodium and gold different colors plating solutions, Nickel would be great to this collection

[Chileantiques]

[mention]wwwEvgeny[/mention] on the first batches, i send the bridges to a plating company and ask to make Rhodium plating. Lately i make this process by my own as i notice there was a big % of rejected by me plated bridges (marks, dactilar, etc). So i start to find a way to make by myself and make some tests with different compositions, assuming that in years where the movements was produced the composition was more basic, without too much shining elements.

[wwwEvgeny]

@wwwEvgeny on the first batches, i send the bridges to a plating company and ask to make Rhodium plating. Lately i make this process by my own as i notice there was a big % of rejected by me plated bridges (marks, dactilar, etc). So i start to find a way to make by myself and make some tests with different compositions, assuming that in years where the movements was produced the composition was more basic, without too much shining elements.

you are professor anyway ) if i will do plates myself first time it will cost me a lot of time and rejected pieces. but just for experiences, like for sport, i still would like to try

[djolemag]

Good results WI th nickel plating can be achieved with homemade solutions, non aggressive, like vinegar (nickel acetate) and electrolysis, check Instructables site... Just bear in mind that you must have layer of copper on brass before nickel...
Edit: just found link
https://www.instructables.com/id/High-Q ... l-Plating/


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[Chileantiques]

Looks good Jorge! I only have one question, I have seen one of your intermediate bridges and the pin for the setting wheel closest to the stem was only half the height of the two others and was not high enough to keep the wheel in place, the pictures shows that all three are of the same height. Is this a QC issues?

Also, just out of curiousity, are you using CW503L brass - hard, CW508L - soft, or CW612N semi hard? The original SF240 bridges were made of CW503L and could stand a lifetime of use, but I have seen a few of these conversions where the wear was obvious without a loupe and the holes were oval...

Interesting questions,
1.- If i can see a pic of what you mean will be better but:
Some regular 1mm bridges comes with half or full size pin to hold setting gears. So i asume that the pin you reffer probably was a replacement pin from a gen 1mm bridge, i really dont know. Anyway, as the 1rst and 2nd gear have almost same height that the space between the stem bridge spring (the part that keeps the gears in place and also gives exact position to the set lever mechanism), not possible to the gear to leave that position even with a 1/4 height pin, so i asume someone also mod a regular 1st setting gear from a KW one (like the pci below) and give it incorrect height or incorrect hole size to the gear. Thats the only way that that gear wasnt in place. When i mod those 1st gear with pillar from KW to a hole flat one i make sure to keep same height and hole diameter than gen, so works smoth and dont go anywhere, just turn. Best way to do that was holding the gear from the pillar, making hole then trim axle.
So half or full size pillar must work without problems.




2.- The brass used its cz120, also know as whatchmaker brass, engraving brass, etc. The one you say was differentCW503L (c24000, CuZn20,Cz103/cz104). If youre talking about old conversion, probably was a different brass. Anyway i have seen oval holes on rubies, center brass jewel of 616s, and other and the oval depends on:
A) If the hole have a embosed hole (with flange, ledge), means the material was too soft (incorrect brass that have easy deformation, cold forming), and its because the pressure made by the wheel axis.
B)if the oval holes was "clean" like i see on some old 616 center brass jewels, and also in some glass Jewels , probably by a : B1) bad service oiling, making the shaft or wheel axle roughing the material due too friction or B2) Rusted non polished wheel axle (steel its harder and will works like a abrasive file). Can be a mixture of both things.

I cna show pic of rusted and rough wheel axles i you want.

My dear friend, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that what you do have made a huge impact regarding Angelus and Cortebert movements! I am not after your hide in any way, simply eager to know the process and the pros and cons.

CZ120 may be known as watchmakers brass, but only for cases and so on. CZ120 contains a couple percent of lead and it is very soft and easy on machinery and tools to begin with, but not durable in the long run for movement plates. It is also known as the preferred material among engravers.
CW503L does not content lead, but 15-20 percent zinc and thus harder and more durable. I tested the original plates with a Rockwell gauge a while back and the CW50L is the brass closest to the original.

Great, glad to answer any question.Regards