Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

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Chileantiques
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques »

EBWing wrote: November 19th, 2019, 6:35 pm Really sweet idea I would like a working movement in the future to play with. I actually own one of your prototype sets from a long time ago that Irate03 had.... unfortunately the movement died and Unreformed66 couldn’t get those bridges working on another movement. I still have the bridges if anyone felt up to the challenge to get them working I would have to get another molly movement I don’t have one at the moment.
if you send it to me i can make it work :P
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by EBWing »

I can just sitting in my parts box actually forgot all about it. Here is a picture this is the one Irate03 had. I would love to have it working I will PM you.

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by tafari »

great work on the bridges, but for me I wouldn’t spend that for a conversion of a molly.
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by earloflondon »

How much is the cheapest running 618 movement is a factor. It looks great but to me it's not a seller. $600 is not that cheap for a converted molnija I guess, I am thinking.

Plus as Djolemag said, corteberts can be found at reasonable prices, though not 618s



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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Chileantiques »

earloflondon wrote: November 20th, 2019, 5:22 am How much is the cheapest running 618 movement is a factor. It looks great but to me it's not a seller. $600 is not that cheap for a converted molnija I guess, I am thinking.

Plus as Djolemag said, corteberts can be found at reasonable prices, though not 618s
Wait, the conversion kit bridges can cost 350usd, not 600. I mean if you install the kit on a molly, you convert it on a 600usd movement.
I think, theres a lot of projects with molly already installed that can upgrade to a different level the movement.
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by earloflondon »

Chileantiques wrote:
earloflondon wrote: November 20th, 2019, 5:22 am How much is the cheapest running 618 movement is a factor. It looks great but to me it's not a seller. $600 is not that cheap for a converted molnija I guess, I am thinking.

Plus as Djolemag said, corteberts can be found at reasonable prices, though not 618s
Wait, the conversion kit bridges can cost 350usd, not 600. I mean if you install the kit on a molly, you convert it on a 600usd movement.
I think, theres a lot of projects with molly already installed that can upgrade to a different level the movement.
Ok the cheapest decent molnija costs around 50 dollars let's say and the total cost with bridges can be at least 400 dollars. And it can be sold for 600$ to whom willing to pay that amount. That's fair as long as there's that someone. Don't get me wrong. Your effort is valueless, but is it a good business idea I'm trying to say. It's your call. Again the thing you've done is great to be honest

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by djolemag »

earloflondon wrote:
Chileantiques wrote:
earloflondon wrote: November 20th, 2019, 5:22 am How much is the cheapest running 618 movement is a factor. It looks great but to me it's not a seller. $600 is not that cheap for a converted molnija I guess, I am thinking.

Plus as Djolemag said, corteberts can be found at reasonable prices, though not 618s
Wait, the conversion kit bridges can cost 350usd, not 600. I mean if you install the kit on a molly, you convert it on a 600usd movement.
I think, theres a lot of projects with molly already installed that can upgrade to a different level the movement.
Ok the cheapest decent molnija costs around 50 dollars let's say and the total cost with bridges can be at least 400 dollars. And it can be sold for 600$ to whom willing to pay that amount. That's fair as long as there's that someone. Don't get me wrong. Your effort is valueless, but is it a good business idea I'm trying to say. It's your call. Again the thing you've done is great to be honest

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+1
That was on my mind too.
Molnia can be found for less but in unknown condition, so let's say you're right about 50 usd cost.
Still,if I have to make choice between 400 usd molnia and some more bucks over for cortebert, I think I would choose cortebert.
Finally, molnia 3602A is awesome movement with chatons and CdG...

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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by tafari »

earloflondon wrote:
Chileantiques wrote:
earloflondon wrote: November 20th, 2019, 5:22 am How much is the cheapest running 618 movement is a factor. It looks great but to me it's not a seller. $600 is not that cheap for a converted molnija I guess, I am thinking.

Plus as Djolemag said, corteberts can be found at reasonable prices, though not 618s
Wait, the conversion kit bridges can cost 350usd, not 600. I mean if you install the kit on a molly, you convert it on a 600usd movement.
I think, theres a lot of projects with molly already installed that can upgrade to a different level the movement.
Ok the cheapest decent molnija costs around 50 dollars let's say and the total cost with bridges can be at least 400 dollars. And it can be sold for 600$ to whom willing to pay that amount. That's fair as long as there's that someone. Don't get me wrong. Your effort is valueless, but is it a good business idea I'm trying to say. It's your call. Again the thing you've done is great to be honest

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I agree with this. why not try to do this bridges at a low cost like $350 for the cortébert 616? I guess it might be work the same way like for the molnija. Im not sure it does, but if, Im sure it would have a lot of customers
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by Sandwich »

Maybe my opinion here will be unpopular but I think this and the 616 “conversions” are what give this hobby a bad name. The former are pretty much bordering on counterfeiting and these latter are a sad attempt at making a very cheap movement look like a quality one. Personally I wouldn’t pay $600 for a “converted” molijna movement because it is still a $50 with a few thin plates replaced that are purely for cosmetics with the same lacking quality. I wouldn’t pay $100. Honestly I wouldn’t pay $600 for a “converted” 616 because it is a $250 movement still, and perhaps lesser quality because it doesn’t have its original precision manufactured bridges. The quality is probably lower, in the name of appearance.

There is cosmetics of the case, dial, and hands, and paying homage to the originals to capture the essence of the style. There I can understand trying to replicate the original. But, making the engine of the watch try to resemble an original is totally different imo. Gen watches were about function, and form followed function with closed casebacks. Trying to make a movement look like a gen movement is either counterfeiting or a sad imitation with no regard for function in the original spirit of vintage watches. Why not just paste a photo of an original 618 on top of the Molnija; that’s the same cheap movement either way isn’t it? A 616 is a quality movement that is cousin to the 618 and from the same era, worthy in its own right as a vintage representative of the era. Why screw around with it just to get it to look like something it isn’t and destroy its 70 year old originality?

To me, this is why many outside the community look down on HF.
Last edited by Sandwich on November 24th, 2019, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prototye Molnija/molnia with 618 Shape Bridges

Post by thelonedoc »

I don't think anyone in this community is making these watches with the intent of selling them as counterfeit and if they are shame on them.

It's fun to own a watch that is as close to the gen vintage peice as possible, to wear it, and to talk about it. I feel that is the spirit of this hobby. The sheer appreciation for these innovative, badass and sexy old watches that have such a cool history.

The authentic vintage watches are too cost prohibitive for most people and being filled with radium they are actually potentially unsafe to own. The works of art created here are the exact opposite. They are obtainable, they are safe, and they are a delight to build and own. You can't even argue that people should just buy a modern watch if they apretiate them so much. The modern peices are inferior to the creations here in almost every way. They have lost their soul in the process of being "reimagined". The masterpeices from this community have no limit but the creativity of the builder, and it shows time and time again with watches that surpass the gens of old and new.

I think it's natural that people want the movements in their hommage peices to look like the originals, whether the movement is cheap or not. Some people simply don't want to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a movment when they could instead build a half dozen watches with cheap movments instead.

Or in the case of 240 conversion plates that remove alarm components. Sure, they may not have swiss precision, but they aren't trying to trick anyone either. The movement IS a 240, you just dont want to stare at the useless alarm components that have no historical business being in the homage. You could almost make the same argument about 616 conversion plates. The 618 IS a cortbert movment, those old watches just had rolex engravings on them. And who was rolex trying to fool? They didnt produce those movments either. Maybe rolex should be called out too for their deceptions!

As for cost of ownership, rare and expensive vintage movments have some serious drawbacks. Parts are insanely difficult to find at times, and even when they are running well, without shock protection they are one wrong move away from a service bill. Or worse a watch that sits in drawer while you search the ends of the earth for that one part you need.

There is actually some logic to having a pretty dress for your throw away movement. The $50 moly costs a fraction of the price of a service. You dont have to worry about parts, just burn the movment out and slap a new one in. It is sort of like "beaternomics" where people buy junk cars and drive them into the ground and then just buy another. In the long run they save a fortune.

If people outside of this community want to hate on us, I say let them hate. They are just snobbish over priveledged blow hards with too much time on their hands. The real reason they hate is because these watches are absolutely gorgeous, often much nicer than any vintage peice that's out there. They don't have the balls to admit that they want them. They have to uphold the illusion that these watches are below them so that they can justify to themselves the reason why they spent upwards of 100k on a shit kicked relic that is slowly giving them cancer.

Sandwich I tend to agree with you in most things, but I disagree entirely that the opinions of arrogant snobs matter at all.
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